So you’re saying that, no matter what other physics concepts effect recoil (and there are many), the return of the slide will always, no matter what, 100% of the time, no matter what other variable there are, completely negate any kind of recoil or loss of sight picture? then changing or updating those standards becomes an exercise in frustration and failure….. it actually becomes easier for a service branch to start from scratch with a new something and exclude the other branches…. – the Army will have M9s for the next 10 years at least. Its not like the P320 was introduced to the public in 2015 and the MHS tests in 2016. And, for the record, there has never been a verified instance of any P320 firing when dropped… The suspension is unrelated to a recent report that found significant faults in Fort Hood's command climate and culture. The Army isn’t exactly a stellar handgun teacher to begin with, and I’d bet a lot of problems would disappear with proper training and maintenance cycles. Around 14minutes he starts talking about the locking block. Never heard of that one before. I and others knew this entire thing was b*****it from the start…. Pardon my density, but in a world with on-demand, just in time, batch-oriented logistics n for realz mass customization … easing internal logistics with “commonality” seems off point. So, Seans, I had the details wrong, but the way you put it actually sounds worse than I thought it was. Note your shock and awe when there are gross inconsistencies between dimensions on seemingly the same model. I guess it’s time to go buy that Desert Eagle, since I’m now aware of these magical slide properties. Shop By. Grayguns Sig Sauer P320 Competition Adjustable Trigger System - Straight . That’s what happens when an organization as big as the army makes a change to a system as big as the M17 project. The SIG P320 X Five for sale at Omaha Outdoors is a full-size member of the X-Series family that paves the way for all others in its class. Fixed a very long time ago. That statement implies that the person making it will never stumble, trip, sweat, bleed, have a mini or major stroke, a coronary event, a muscle cramp, or a momentary inattention, and is, in fact, ‘perfect.’ First draw the curve. Sincerely, truly, with all my heart — FUCK Sig. Please dumb down the answer enough so that a lowly 11 year experienced manufacturing engineer, like myself, can understand. That’s why they changed the design from the Beretta 92SB to the SB-F, and why the SEALs switched to the P226 when everyone else was going to the 92. Or, just go back to solid reliable modern 1911 s……. They’re worse than Springfield. And I’m just sitting here with my CZ P-09 that I can’t get to malfunction no matter what I do…. Anyone feeling nostalgic for the Beretta M9 yet? Maybe you should try actually gripping the gun instead of letting it flip around. That is the kind of abuse that I am talking about. The army should have just modified them to a G model, put some thin grips on them and called it a day. Features coyote tan finish, ambi manual thumb safety, DP Pro Plate. It isn’t the same thing as being deployed in the field. The service's M17 and M18 MHS pistols feature an upgraded design and have "passed the U.S. Army's testing protocols," according to Sig officials. Bring back the Beretta and get over this modular handgun system crap. Glock's Worst Nightmare: Sig Sauer's P320 Is One Dangerous Gun by Charlie Gao When a variant of the SIG Sauer P320 was adopted by the U.S. … Issues were discovered, issues will be discovered. I’m just trying to learn. Load up a magazine in capacities from 9 to 17 rounds. “The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket.”, ……..I see no problem here…..SAYS NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sig Sauer how about you get off your ass and actually beta test your product before turning it over to civilian populous to use as a self defense weapon system! Jesus, Ted, did they make you buy one? I changed my mind about that P365. OEM Sig Sauer P320 Takedown Lever, Tungsten DLC Part# 1300777-02-R Note: Does not include O-Ring (38. $499.99. But they consciously, knowingly put the unsafe version in the hands of Americans. Private snuffy uses gear in ways it was not intented. The Glock 19 is one of the safest guns you’ll come across. I’ve had a lot of problems with Sig Sauer over the years with customer service and just junk breaking Inside their pistols. And when we proved that it wasn’t drop safe, they bold-face said “yes it is, you don’t know what you’re talking about.” And finally when it was a firestorm they couldn’t hide behind, they still refused to issue a recall, they instead called it a “voluntary upgrade” — so it puts the responsibility on the customer to find out about the problem. “….Unfortunately the gov’t will NEVER go with quality…”. What specific design or production elements render it poop? Here’s how the P320 works, and how it performed at the range. They should have bought the FNX-45!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, but this is the same military where an entire unit will now be made to conform to the gender demands of a single person. Then 300 about a month later. Sig Sauer P320 in Stock at the Best Price! I mean its not like your timeline is wrong or anything. All animosity aside, how exactly does a pistol eject live ammunition? I’m guessing no one bothered looking at the source of the report, and the other programs that were evaluated, and much more significant problems noted. TTAG has placed a call to SIG SAUER for comment. Training problems will happen, user error will come into play, all kinds of things will pop up. Yea I own a P320, reliable and no issues. If they didn’t find any, they wouldn’t be doing their job and probably wouldn’t exist for too long. There was never a documented issue with any of the American made weapons. I don’t even like Glocks that much but this should be grounds for a lawsuit. Anything else, including THE ENTIRE PURPOSE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE MILITARY, is now at least 5th down the line in terms of importance. I don’t care how many foreign garrison based Armies use a Glock. . Soldiers have been know to use the butt end of 1911 as a hammer. . New. . Oddly enough the SEALs had never had issues with the 92 until then, even though they had been using them since the late 1970s. When Sig Sauer unveiled the Sig P320 model in 2014, a key selling point was that it did away with this necessity. It usually always comes down to quality vs quantity. Get more stuff n track it looser. Wasn’t that the floor requirement ? “There were two trigger splintering hardware deficiencies observed during the IOT&E. ©COPYRIGHT 2020, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Heck, you only save 5 Oz between an M9 and M17. Sig Sauer P320 For Sale Sig Sauer P320 Pistols and Handguns For Sale Online. unreliable) and obsolete…. Not one weapon on the planet hasn’t had some sort of “glitch” to be fixed. . LOL…..do you know what a camel is??? What makes it a turd? To me, isn’t this REALLY similar to the Smith .38, the 1911, the Beretta, issues, when they started shipping them to the Army? As the poster above said, this is not new tech. Thanks in advance. Ah, the Schadenfreude is rich with this one. You want our government to spend more money than it already does?? “I am here to tell you there are no safety issues with the P320…. Sig Sauer Magazine: P320/P250 Compact: 9mm 15rd Capacity - MAG-MOD-C-9-15 . That’s EVIL. I’m not saying they should have gone with the Glock. The slides would have fatigue cracks at the corners of the notches where the locking block ears would engage the slide. As far as slides flyinig off give me a break. Did you know some shooters put lighter recoil springs in competition pistols to prevent…wait for it…muzzle dip! You can find the Sig Sauer P320 and P320-M17 for sale here, along with Sig P320 magazines, holsters, optics, lasers, and accessories. The military relies heavily on space-based technologies to keep its edge on the battlefield. Could they make the bore a little higher as well…. “Hey, Sarge! But they’ve been using rifles made out of recycled Schlitz cans and melted Pringles lids for years. The Fire Control Unit (FCU), the driving force behind the modularity of the P320, now stands on its own - enabling an entirely new level of customization and personalization in the world of firearms.P320 Custom Works FCU; countless options, endless possibilities. Thankfully, their Jedi mind trick didn’t work on most of us. Next question. Out of stock. It the abuse the equipment gets in the field. Few of us are foolish enough to actually believe that any tool made by Man is ‘perfect;’ Neither are we foolish enough to confound a mechanical defect that does NOT result in a negligent discharge with one that DOES. Obviously Glock should have been in ….In both 9mm and 45 acp ! Its fine, its a pistol for an armed forces that doesn’t use them. It’s in their interest to find problems. I really think that the United States Army should shitcan Sig Sauer. Find out why the Sig P320 was awarded the 2016 American Rifleman Golden Bullseye "Handgun of the Year' award. Looking at the requirements- stuff like “no finger grooves!”- the test was written for the answer, not the other way around. The bureaucracy that fielded the report exists to find problems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. They’re dead to me. Sig Sauer P320 XCompact Pro 9MM 3.6" Build Kit. Only useable by those with gorilla hands SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. They KNEW it was defective and not drop-safe when the Army testing showed ’em it wasn’t. Tellurium is added to increase machinability, by increasing chip breakage. Nostalgic for slides flying off and hitting people in the face? So Sig knew their POS P320 wasn’t drop-safe, and they foisted it on us consumers anyway. Range Sessions. The problem with the contract was that the military never finished the testing and just went with the cheaper bid(not modularity like some have claimed.) xm17 (Army) & m27 (USMC) vs F35 (everybody). Currently shipping with 1 17RD magazine and a voucher included in the box from Sig Sauer to receive the 2nd magazine when supplies are replenished at a later date. The majority of common semi-auto pistol calibers don’t have that much recoil in guns that you can get a whole hand on. Everybody wants perfection but the fact of the matter is perfection isn’t in play in business deals – acceptable levels are. We stock the Sig Sauer P320 and P250 magazines for sale that are manufactured to exacting standards and precise specifications. Course I guess from a civilian prospective now that would be wayyyy to easy. It’s a whole new concept in handguns: make the frame, barrel, slide, and even caliber of one gun interchangeable. The 11 by the army were in testing. Featuring a gold titanium nitride coating and lightened skeletonized trigger, the stand-alone, serialized FCU allows shooters to build their own P320 pistol using SIG and aftermarket grip modules, slides and barrels. 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Look, I’m sorry that you were educated by the American Public School system, and that you think very basic physics concepts don’t exist; it’s not your fault. So what when I was in the military if you were left-handed or if a weapon system didn’t fit you correctly you got over it you made it work. All settlement members who continue to own their P320 pistol would receive a transferable Sig Sauer limited lifetime warranty against any future cartridge failure events, it adds. The wording of the report is not entirely clear on the exact date, but it states the Army directed SIG to develop an ECP, or Engineering Change Proposal, to lighten the weight of the components in the trigger to fix the drop fire issue. Items 91 to 105 of 187 total ... Shop for a variety of Sig Sauer accessories including magazines, Caliber X-Change Kits, holsters, mag pouches, carry bags, parts, springs, and optics. Sig Sauer P320 Carry Coyote for sale now at Proven Arms & Outfitters. taskandpurpose.com: The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket. 9MM SEMI AUTO 10 ROUNDS 4.7 BARREL NOT SPECIFIED LBS. Don’t worry about SIG problems. "Yolo, PS5 > letters of discipline," according to the service member. just reinvent the wheel…. Cool. The SIG P320 price at Omaha Outdoors drives tacks through the competition. But pistols barely get issued, the training regimen is woeful for pistols, because they’re really are very few folks using them in combat. WON’T cycle FMJ ?!?!? then they invited the press in and said “look, we already had this other trigger, we put it in and all your problems are solved.” HOW DID THEY “ALREADY” HAVE THIS OTHER TRIGGER? Best I can figure, if they’re not talking about a light strike that they are manually racking out of the chamber, is one spectacular double feed. Now we get to sit back and watch Glock fanboys tell Sig fanboys how the Glock should have won and the Glock is better. "It is Sig Sauer's position that the design of the P320 pistol -- both pre-upgrade and post-upgrade -- prevents the P320 pistol from firing in an unlocked condition," according to the company's statement. They can suck on their own barrels and drop-safe their triggers right in their mouths for all I care. I am certain that every single Glock that fires when dropped, or fires without a trigger pull, has been recalled. The upgraded design and implementation of the VUP are intended to further enhance the drop safety of the P320 model pistol, according to the statement. Shooting Review: Sig Sauer P320 Carry | Eagle Gun Range Inc. If they wanted to have a compact pistol for CID then there were many off the shelf options available. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. The issues were most likely due to metallurgical issues with the Italian made slides. It’s almost like a repeat of the turn-of-the-century Colt automatics which had the same problem of slides flying off. That’s the worst of the worst. Meanwhile I’ll just pop some popcorn, enjoy the show and keep enjoying my Beretta 96. Related: Sig Sauer Offers Safety Upgrade on Handgun the US Army Just Bought, "By entering into this agreement, Sig Sauer is not admitting that any of plaintiffs' allegations have merit," according to the statement. Well shit, this changes everything! Having bugs that need to be ironed out should be expected with new guns. Those FBI Glocks didn’t have any problems at all, oh wait, the locking blocks and triggers fell out and the slides jettisoned but PERFECTION! It may be one of the best 9mm in the market today, considering its size, ergo, capacity, and accuracy. But it IS your fault when you’d decide to be a condescending ass about it (and yes, I’m aware that I’m also being a condescending ass. Exactly. . Can any body just say GLOCK……It has been around alot longer and in 8 yrs of carring a G19 and 1000’s of rounds I’ve never had a failure. The SIG Sauer M17 and M18 are service pistols used by the United States Armed Forces.. On January 19, 2017, the United States Army announced that a customized version of the SIG Sauer P320 had won the Army's XM17 Modular Handgun System competition.The full-sized model will be known as the M17, and the smaller-sized carry model will be known as the M18. For 30 years us Beretta fans have taken grief from Sig fans about how the Sig should have won and the Sig was better. Does not have a rail for a light. Hardness all over the place on the same key parts varies wildly from one gun to the next. I would far rather have a pistol that defaulted to ‘safe’ if something goes wrong, than one that fires itself instead. It contains several interesting facts about the pistol program. That’s it so far, but there’s been nary a bobble with either Blazer Brass FMJ or Speer Gold Dot (150rds). They’re worse than Cheaper Than Dirt. SIG SAUER, Inc. is proud to announce the Nevada Highway Patrol has transitioned to the SIG SAUER P320 9mm pistol as their official duty pistol. SIG SAUER Custom Works has unleashed the soul of the P320. In the meantime. The revelations contained therein are anything but bland. That’s a shit ton of guns. 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Would it be inappropriate to interject at this point that if one is going to copy Glock, then one should copy them properly? All rights reserved. correct. The whole scenario has left a Sauer taste in my mouth. Only one of them could positively say that they were using hot ammo. Sig Sauer P320 Nitron Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol, Blk - 320C-9 … Ralph Northam said that workers removed the statue from the National Statuary Hall Collection early Monday. Sig Sauer. Is it a good idea to buy military pistols that fire when dropped, sometimes fire when the trigger isn’t depressed, and that won’t feed FMJ ammunition properly, just because you can remove the firing mechanism quickly and swap between ‘frames’ (which is, realistically, not really a huge consideration on a military pistol, but never mind. SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. When we asked about the P320 drop safe issue that August, SIG SAUER told TTAG they had modified the military model’s trigger to enhance the trigger pull and eliminate the “click” about which many users — including the U.S. Army — had complained. Glock, Glock, and oh yes, Glock. Nobody fights of war with a handgun anyways I don’t know why they thought it was such importance to update their handgun. It should have been the Army’s choice. A friend of mine has carried one his entire LE career with me, and fired untold number of rounds through it in that 30 years. "Although this disconnector serves as a redundant safety against the pistol firing in an unlocked condition, it is not its primary function and is not necessary to prevent such occurrences.". And according to my Dad when I had him read this, why he threw a fit when they took away his M14 and gave him a “…piece of junk, jam-o-matic, pansy M16”, cause they jammed all the time and hence he had no time for one, yet that’s still the basic design used by our Military… They fix this and that as needed and that’s why you’ve got a 30 year history of M9 use. They had a defective product, they knew it, and they shoved it on us anyway. Sig Sauer P320 Compact 9mm / .40 Auto / .357 SIG Large Grip Module, Black - GRIPMODC943LGBLK . This SIG is a full on boondoggle. In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle. They stood by and didn’t say a damn thing when an officer got shot in the leg by their defective pistol. “I do not think that polymer framed hand guns are suitable for US military use. ?…..a horse by committee…. The Beretta’s were not flying off due to using overpressure ammunition. Over the last year, my SIG Sauer P320 XCompact has seen everything from snow and sub-zero temperatures to rain and hot summer days at the sandy section of the range. The US never signed on, but we’ve abided by it, so look at something like the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator/Defender that isn’t a hollow point, can defeat at least level II armor, is fairly barrier blind, and functions within spec pressures. Had the government stuck with genuine parts, this would have been a non-issue. This is not an F-35 or even an M16. When people didn’t go away, when multiple people PROVED the damn thing was unsafe (which they already KNEW it was!) Out of Stock. The military wanted a modular pistol and that’s what they got. How did the introduction of the M16 go? Charges Bombmaker in 1988 Pan Am Explosion over Lockerbie, A Space Force Member Was Busted Down a Rank for Bailing on PT to Get a PlayStation 5, Space Force Poised to See Major Growth, New Uniforms in 2021, Congress Passes Sweeping End-of-Year Bill Impacting 'Every Corner' of the Veteran Community, Fort Hood's Top Enlisted Soldier Suspended, Investigation Pending, The VA Has a Hospital Named for a Slavery-Supporting Confederate Doctor. Special Price $99.92 Regular Price $129.00. The only reason that this failure in action is happening is because Army Procurement decided to reinvent the wheel and didn’t test properly- or did test propery and didn’t select properly. Unfortunately the gov’t will NEVER go with quality, and the higher (but manageable) costs that come with it. That’s not to say that the Sig Sauer P320 isn’t completely safe to use. Marines have not even begun to budget for these and are buying G19Ms for deployed. The recent youtube video… is an obvious fake.”. The SIG Sauer P320 is a modular semi-automatic pistol made by SIG Sauer, Inc. of Exeter, New Hampshire, and SIG Sauer GmbH of Eckernförde, Germany.It is a further development of the SIG Sauer P250, utilizing a striker-fired mechanism in lieu of a double action only hammer system. Its been around about as long as the Beretta, but somehow is totally modern, Hooray for backstraps, (lack of) finger grooves, ambi controls that make previous generations’ slides and barrels incompatible, a safety that we just Dremeled into the plastic, and a needless second lanyard loop that makes previous generations’ magazines incompatible! They then knowingly, consciously brought it to market and sold it to innocent customers. There is another problem that is concerning. Sig Sauer P320 Takedown Safety Lever, Shortened Pin. The problem is getting a committee of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines to agree on those standards….. by the time that committee agrees on those standards for that something, that something has become over complicated (i.e. Sig P320 Pro slides are great for those looking for a optics mounting plate while still keeping the . The Sig Sauer P320 is also an excellent choice for those of you that live in an area with strict gun laws, for obvious reasons. This is why it baffles me when they had a pistol system that worked but it didn’t fit good and smaller people’s hands. Yes, I own a P320. Too large Usually get what you pay for. Because they KNEW the sodding things were defective because they already knew about the army tests and they’d already fixed it! . SIG SAUER P320 Engraved Edition with 10 rd magazine $1,149.99. . Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Of course they did. Buy Glock…..its not “Americas got talent” or a beauty pageant…it has to work and work well…….and GLOCK WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your email address will not be published. And yeah, I’m buying the P365 ASAP. “But it’s heavy and expensive.” I hear what your saying and Imma let you finish, but I counter your argument with the fact THE DAMN THING WORKS! This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. I mean a truly evil company obviously used their time machine to manipulate the laws of time and space to ensure they’d make tens of thousands pistols with the flaw, but only after they’d discovered it, went back in time and un-fixed it so that….or something. !….GOOD G#D ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The U.S. District Court for the Western District of Missouri is scheduled to hold a hearing June 25 to consider whether to approve the settlement and a request for attorneys' fees and expenses of up to $850,000, plus a payment of $1,400 to $2,800 for each named plaintiff, according to Sig Sauer. Sig Sauer P320 Sub-compact or Sig P365: The Final Verdict When it comes to P320 sub-compact or P-365, our final verdict declares the P-365 pistol as the winner. Bore axis is only one factor. Hunter Holmes McGuire played a pivotal role in designating medical personnel as noncombatants but had a troubling history... "They should not test us," said Army Gen. Stephen Townsend, head of U.S. Africa Command. SIG SAUER P320 X-Carry Pistol in 9mm. Exceptional guns. They’d be better off if they just looked at some ammo that doesn’t befoul the 1899 Hague Convention. $30.00. Even worse, the report recommends the Army engineer some fixes “upon identification of the root cause” of the ejection issue — a statement that indicates the branch hasn’t yet identified the source of the issue. Polymer is as far as you can get from “universal” adoption. I do not think that polymer framed hand guns are suitable for US military use. Customers Also Viewed. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. When people PROVED that it wasn’t drop-safe, they said “shut up, go away, you don’t know what you’re talking about” — when they knew for a FACT that it wasn’t drop-safe. This ECP-updated, non-drop-fire pistol was the one which took part in PVT, or Product Verification Test, beginning in April 2017. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Their entry into the striker fired market is the p320, a welcomed sight in a stagnating market and a very real replacement for Glock pistols for CCW and general shooting.Not sure about gun action… Then 250 the following day. These Exchange kits have been very heavily backordered since the P320’s launch last year. Give’me a break…they’ll get it worked out. Can I borrow your time machine since you’ve already been to August of 2018 and I’d like to visit myself? Preliminary analysis indicates that this may be correlated with the ECP developed by SIG SAUER to correct the deficiency of the pistol firing when dropped with the safety not engaged.”. How about the F35, How about the FBI Glock, How about the …. There’s a reason why there is so much xm855 and xm885 on the market. . Going to a tellurium free grade steel and adding radii to those corners fixed the issue. The P320 pistol met and exceeded all U.S. safety standards, but it was discovered during additional testing that the P320 pistol could discharge if dropped at a specific angle, it states. After almost a year and 5,000 rounds, let’s take a look at how the SIG Sauer P320 XCompact did. $149.00. The pistol they presented was a huge piece of trash. Why I think Glock got rooked. Grayguns PELT Sig Sauer P320 Competition Trigger Kit - Curved . The settlement also applies to current and former P320 owners who previously returned their pistol to the company after a "cartridge failure event" and were told that it could not be repaired, according to the Sig document. I get putting less work on the shooty guys. Add to Cart. As one vet on Youtube said, the Army needed new GUNS, not an entirely new platform. Your email address will not be published. Mic a few of the dimensions via a set of lowly calipers. Sig Sauer P320 M17 commercial variant of the military contract sidearm. That is a myth that was purposely spread by Beretta. Is it time to mention that Glocks don’t fire when dropped, only fire when the trigger is depressed, and feed FMJ ammunition rather well? Also, load-bearing contact surfaces seem undersized in some areas, and oversized in others. Sig P320 and Sig P320 For Sale. Then plot the data. The P320® Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost. Small arms using 100+ year old technology should be off the shelf ready.. If I’m going to tote around gun that big it’s gonna be launching a bigger bullet too. SIG’s P320 is having a hard time staying out of the news.
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